When Helen Duffett met Iain Dale

Why would a woman from Scotland spend a Monday evening listening to a local London radio station? And why would she consider making it a regular date? Every Monday at 8, LBC has a bloggers' panel. Last night it was chaired by the one Jennie refers to as the Egregious Tory Tosser who was sitting in for the regular presenter who was sick.

I hesitate to say anything nice about the King of the Tory Blogosphere, but he's unlikely to read this, nor is anyone who knows him and is likely to tell him, so I'm fairly safe, but actually, he's really good at this radio presenting lark. He's assured without being a prat about it, interesting, witty and very engaging. I was so interested that I actually kept listening until the end of the show at ten, when the subjects under discussion were the Greencoat Boy incident (of which more later) and Martin Amis' comment that only depressing books win prizes. It was quite funny to hear Iain suddenly remember that he'd chucked Martin Amis out of Politicos for smoking. I mean, who would smoke in a book shop? Nothing there could catch fire, could it?

The panel comprised Tory Bear, Alex Hilton and my reason for listening, my mate Helen Duffett. Not only did she have to engage in sparky debate for an hour, she also had me stalking her via Twitter. She mentioned the word elephant within the first 5 minutes, so I challenged her to get the first word I associate with elephants, Millennium in as well. And she did it, in the dying moments of the show.

The subects under discussion ranged from spending cuts, to William Hague's surprisingly friendly toned comments about Europe, to the election of the deputy speakers in the Commons.

I rather liked Helen's first major contribution to the debate (after a plug for the Lib Dem Blog of the Year Awards) in which she said that that it was people that mattered, not pounds. That sort of commitment to protect the vulnerable is what the Lib Dems bring to this coalition.

Another great moment for her came when an idiot phoned in saying that Child Benefit should be scrapped because it only encouraged people to have children. Helen stepped in and said that she had 4 children, and she certainly didn't do it for the money. Iain Dale very cheekily asked her why she'd had 4 children, like it was any of his or anybody else's business and she replied, quick as a flash, "to pay your pension, Iain." I relayed this exchange via Twitter, Iain Dale saw it and read it out on air.

He read out another tweet of mine on air a bit later, too, when discussing the Greencoat Boy. Now, I think that what happened to LGBT Labour, when they were effectively refused service on Saturday night, was absolutely appalling. The company who owns the pub does seem to have been falling over itself since then to make it up to them, to their credit, but it should never, ever have happened. On this issue, I am completely on LGBT Labour's side. However, I am still pretty darned livid at the way in which Labour tweeters through buckets of bile at David Laws last week when understanding would have been more appropriate. If it had been a Labour minister who had had the same circumstances, I would have backed him or her up. So, I tweeted that I wondered whether the LGBT Labour people would have more sympathy for David Laws having suffered such homophobia themselves. Iain put that to the chair of LGBT Labour, with the addition that I was making a political point - but certainly no more point scoring than Labour have been engaging in on this issue. I wasn't impressed with his answer, which said so little that I can't actually remember what it was.

All in all, this show was a good way to spend a Monday evening. I reckon Iain should get his own regular radio slot and it's always lovely to hear Helen. Whenever she's on the radio she always comes out with something pertinent in a memorable and original way.

Punch Taverns apologise to LGBT Labour over #Greencoatboy banning

Well, I guess this is something from Punch Taverns, owners of the Greencoat Boy pub in Westminster where LGBT Labour were refused service on Saturday night in what has to be one of the stupidest and most ignorant blunders by a pub manager ever.

This is the full statement from their website:

"Punch Taverns seeks to provide open and welcoming venues to everyone. We are shocked and saddened that the Labour LGBT did not experience this at The Greencoat Boy last night and apologise unreservedly.

"Across our estate, diversity and inclusion are a core part of our ethics and are clearly referenced in our recruitment process, our equal opportunities policy and training. We would like to stress that this is an isolated incident; we have a good track record on equal opportunities and we do not tolerate homophobia in our pubs, whether from guests to other guests, or involving our employees.

"We are currently conducting a full investigation of the incident and the Deputy General Manager will not be on site until the investigation is concluded. We are co-operating fully with the police and plan to meet with the LGBT Labour Group early next week to discuss how we can work together to further improve our policies and procedures.

In addition, we have this morning contacted all of our general managers and pub teams to remind them of our equal opportunity policy and will seek to work with external partners to further enhance our training to ensure that inclusion remains at the heart of it."

This is a well worded statement, I think, which aims to point out that diversity is at the core of their values and not something they do simply because they are required to by law. It's good that LGBT Labour are going to meet with senior managers next week.

I can't quite get my head round what the manager thought he was doing on Saturday night. I mean, turning away the LGBT Group from a major political party. Did he think they were just going to meekly go away and not tell anybody about it? The story spread across Twitter really quickly and tweeters from every political party and none expressed their anger and disbelief at what had happened.

I suppose this incident shows that, unfortunately, homophobia is alive and well in this country and having experienced it at first hand, I hope that LGBT Labour will reconsider some of the poisonous tweets from Labour members directed at David Laws last weekend. Ben Bradsahaw, in particular, ought to be ashamed of himself for this tweet. Labour did not create a discrimination-free utopia while in office, regardless of what they think, and I'm still angry at the lack of understanding they showed David.

Sure, the man himself has realised that he actually had nothing to worry about, having received nothing but support from the very people he feared would reject him. Having said that, not every story has this sort of happy ending. Just amongst my friends, I know a few people who have had a really hard time with their families and have been terribly hurt as a consequence.

At least in this instance, Punch Taverns have done the right thing. They took more time than they perhaps should but they've taken action. Let's hope that they have a successful meeting with LGBT Labour this week.

So what should happen to the manager of the #Greencoatboy?

When we came in last night from Anna's birthday dinner last night, I saw that Twitter was awash with comments featuring #bigotbar. It didn't take me long to discover that LGBT Labour had booked the place to hold a function but when they got there, they were apparently told by the manager that had he known that they were an LGBT group h e wuold never have taken the booking and refused them service.

That seems to be a clear breach of the law. Look what the Equality Act (Sexual Regulations) 2007 says:

(1) For the purposes of these Regulations, a person (“A”) discriminates against another (“B”) if, on grounds of the sexual orientation of B or any other person except A, A treats B less favourably than he treats or would treat others (in cases where there is no material difference in the relevant circumstances).

It appears to me to be an open and shut case of discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation to me, not that I'm a lawyer, of course.

The people concerned from LGBT Labour have rightly reported this breach of the law to the Police and this is by far the least of the problems that the pub's owners Punch Taverns in the morning. Their Chief Executive Giles Thorley, who actually leaves at the end of this month, will have a fairly full inbox (askgiles@punchtaverns.com in case you're wondering), including this from me:

Dear Mr Thorley

I’m writing to express my horror at hearing that the LGBT Labour group were denied service at your Greencoat Boy pub in Westminster on the grounds of their sexuality.

This is a clear contravention of the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation Regulations) 2007 which clearly state that:

“1) For the purposes of these Regulations, a person (“A”) discriminates against another (“B”) if, on grounds of the sexual orientation of B or any other person except A, A treats B less favourably than he treats or would treat others (in cases where there is no material difference in the relevant circumstances).”

I will not use any Punch Taverns facilities unless or until I can see that you are taking action to deal with this breach of the law, are working as an organisation to ensure that all of your employees know their legal obligations and that you will not under any circumstances tolerate such homophobic discrimination in the future. A public apology to the group concerned would be an essential part of that.

I look forward to hearing from you with details of your response to this shameful incident.

Yours sincerely

Caron Lindsay

Also note that Mr Thorley is leaving at the end of this month and his place is being taken by Ian Dyson who formerly worked at Marks and Spencer. If the current regime fails to deliver an acceptable response, the new one might.

So what should Punch do?

In my view they have now had plenty of time to issue the required grovelling apology to LGBT Labour, weekend or not, but that is essential.

They need to show that they take this seriously and will ensure that nothing like this happens again.

What about the manager whose comments sparked the incident, though? Should he simply be sacked? I'm not so sure. He needs to abide by the law in future, but I'm not sure sacking him straight away would help and it would only have the effect of entrenching his own views.

I'd really love to have half an hour with him, just to see if I can find out where his prejudice came from. We know there is far too much homphobia out there - I've written about it often enough in this blog and like all prejudices, it will have its roots in irrational fear or lack of knowledge. Maybe if someone had a chat with this man in a non threatening environment, his views could be challenged and he might change his mind. Is that not worth a try?